Snapped Axle?

Message

dan · #1 Post by **dan** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:23 pm

Hi everyone,
something snapped on the front of my 110 today. I'm guessing that it has something to do with axle, but I'd like some second opinions. I was tugging at a piece of firewood. I wasn't yanking or being rough, just trying to pull. All of a sudden I heard a snap, and it wouldn't drive forward, but it would go backward a bit. Then after a few times of gentlish back and forth it finally drove. Then I had very limited steering on the one side. The truck would only drive when the transfer case lever was in the lock position. In the other position nothing happened when I released the clutch. I gently limped it 10km down the steep logging road and back home. I am fairly sure that the breakage occurred on the driver side. What could do this? Thanks.

rayhyland · #2 Post by **rayhyland** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:40 pm

Sounds like a front half shaft at a guess.

Ray

HeadDamage · #3 Post by **HeadDamage** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:49 pm

Limited steering? Sounds like you might have popped a CV joint in one of your front swivel housings. Do the wheels turn full lock to full lock with no restriction? If not I'd say CV joint.

dan · #4 Post by **dan** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:27 pm

I do not have full steering. Some times I had a little more steering than other times, but definitely something blocking steering. One other point to note was that in the locked position, the 110 drove but had no traction to the front wheels. As I said previously, it wouldn't drive at all in the regular position.

red90 · #5 Post by **red90** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:22 am

You need to start pulling it apart. There is nothing to be gained in guessing. CV most likely, or halfshaft. What year 110?

In the future, it is better to pull the broken parts on the trail. They can cause more damage while driving. also, if it is a CV,you could have lost steering, which is not too safe.

dan · #6 Post by **dan** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:37 am

I figured that I could do damage driving it but I gambled it because I was quite far into the mountains and it was snowing. I hope that I did not do anymore damage. The 110 is a 1986 model.
I will try to pull it apart today(I have to see if my wife-boss will give me shop time) . Luckily I have a spare 110(1985) in the driveway that I can use for parts if I have problems finding what I need.
Regardless of what broke, I'm guessing that I have to remove the braking components as well as the bearings etc. In the shop manual, there is some kind of dial gauge that is used to check certain endplays. Is there a way to get around this or is this instrument essential?

I did lose some steering which made me nervous. I did not go faster than 20-30 km/h.

red90 · #7 Post by **red90** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:13 am

The only "special" tool you should need is a hub nut socket. CV end float can be done by eye or with a feeler gauge. IMO, bearings are better set by the "snug" method, than the end float method. Your mileage may vary...

If you read the 300TDI era manual, they show this bearing setting procedure, which I think is preferable to the end float method in the earlier manual.

13. Fit hub adjusting nut. Tighten to 50 Nm (37
lbf/ft). Ensure hub is free to rotate with no
bearing play.
14. Back off adjusting nut 90° and tighten to 10 Nm
(7 lbf/ft).
15. Fit a new lock washer.
16. Fit locknut. Tighten to 50 Nm (37 lbf/ft).
17. Tab over lock washer to secure adjusting nut
and locknut.

You need to start pulling everything into the hub to see the CV joints. Start on the side you suspect to be broken.

Normally on the early axles the diff breaks first, but your description sounds like a CV.

Follow this: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=23658 and then unbolt the spindle from the swivel housing and you have access to remove the CV joint and halfshaft. Anybody that goes off road, should practice this at home so that they can be prepared to do it in the field WHEN it happens. :wink: If both CV joints and halfshafts look OK, then the diff is dead and you would pull that after removing the halfshafts.

rayhyland · #8 Post by **rayhyland** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:24 pm

Red90,

how long does this usually take you to do in the shop vs in the field?

Ray

red90 · #9 Post by **red90** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:19 pm

LOL.... I don't know. You could probably pull a CV and have it back together in an hour if that is all you are doing. Normally 2 hours (a side) when replacing seals and re-greasing/cleaning is what I recall in the shop. Would depend on the weather and the tools at hand...

dan · #10 Post by **dan** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:21 pm

I started into pulling it apart and a problem early on. I was trying to remove the caliper(I've done this a few times on other vehicles) and while trying to remove the caliper mounting bolts(2 of them). I saw that they were not regular headed bolts but rather had some king of torx like pattern on the outside. I tried a 14mm socket on the lower bolt and it fit nice and snug, so I started ratcheting to remove it and the bolt stripped. What socket does this type of bolt need? It seems to me that I need to get these calipers off in order to keep pulling apart. Any ideas?

John · #11 Post by **John** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:19 am

A few posts back Red90 posted a link to some instructions. That link shows the photo of the socket that you likely need, a 13mm 12 point socket.

red90 · #12 Post by **red90** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:57 am

Yes, 13 mm, 12 point socket. 1/2" drive and a bar as they are meant to be on tight (100 lb-ft). An offset, closed end wrench can also work.

dan · #13 Post by **dan** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:22 am

After stripping the bolt I went and read the post in depth. Pity I didn't do so before. I have to go to town to buy one.

dan · #14 Post by **dan** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:47 am

Do you know if the 12 pt 13mm socket comes in 1/2" drive? I called lordco and all they have is one in 3/8".

red90 · #15 Post by **red90** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:48 pm

You could use a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter. All my 1/2" sets have 13 mm. 13mm is probably the most commonly needed wrench on the Defender, so it is good to have a variety of options with that size.

10, 13 and 17 take a large chunk of the truck apart.

dan · #16 Post by **dan** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:39 pm

I was able to get to the problem. I removed the stub axle. Before the stub axle I removed the 5 bolts that hold the cover on(axle nuts and shim etc) and when I did oil started to leak out. I'm not sure about this so I figure to put it out there and see if this is normal. When I took the stub axle off, there was broken metal pieces and ball bearings everywhere. I guess I found what used to be my cv joint. The metal parts did do some damage inside the whole unit. Nothing is broken or torn off but there are some deeper scratches in the housing. Everything else seems to be in order albeit shards of metal everywhere. Where should I take this? Clean it all up and put in another cv joint?

red90 · #17 Post by **red90** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:40 pm

The oil is the swivel oil. There is a drain on the swivel housing. Pull the remnants of the CV joint out and the inner halfshaft. Make sure the halfshaft is OK. Get a new CV joint (the non-genuine ones are cheap and fine..), then put it back together and you are good to go.

Might as well replace the hub seal as well while it is apart.

BTW, were abouts are you? Maybe someone local could pop around to lend a hand.

dan · #18 Post by **dan** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:32 pm

So it was OK for oil to leak out when I removed the drive member(the piece with 5 bolts through it)? I thought that maybe there might be a leak because the sequence in the manual put the draining of the oil after the removal of the drive member , from which I assumed that if there should be oil in there that the book would put the oil draining procedure before the removal of the drive member. Anyway... just a thought.
I was thinking of pulling the cv joint from my other 110 and using it. I would need to have a look before deciding to install it. Even if it's not the greatest, it will get me back on the road for now and give me a chance to get the part if I have problems finding it here locally( I have done quite a few cv joints on older subarus and find the process very similar and feel slightly better now that I own a 13mm 12 point socket!).
I live the the Kootenays about 30 mins east of Nelson. The parts stores around here are Lordco, Taylor Wilton, Napa and the tire. Would these stores have access to these parts(seals and cv joints)? What can I expect to pay for a cv joint?

Roverworks · #19 Post by **Roverworks** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Send me your axle serial #...I may have all you need..depending...

[email protected]

red90 · #20 Post by **red90** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:01 am

Alan can probably help you. The non-genuine ones out of the UK are a lot cheaper than genuine ones if you buy a new one. Local stores won't have it as your truck does not exist as far as they are concerned.....

See the massive price difference here: http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/li ... 522&page=1

A good place to purchase if Alan cannot help
http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/produc ... no=aeu2522

Oh, I see, oil in the bearings. There is a seal between the swivel and bearings on the CV joint stub shaft. You can replace that. Personally I leave it out as I prefer oil in the bearings, your call. If you do not want the seal, the outer band must be left in place as a spacer for the bushing.

If you replace the hub seal use a genuine RTC3511 regardless of what is there ATM.

Do you have a parts book? You can download one here: http://landroveroneten.com/index.php/la ... r-manuals/

dan · #21 Post by **dan** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:55 pm

I removed the cv joint from the spare 110. It looked fine so I used it. Put everything back together and went for a test drive. No problem. I've been on a few small drives around nothing else. Things seem ok. It was a good learning experience for me. It is nice to have the knowledge and understanding about how things work and how they go back together. Thanks everyone for all the pointers.

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC

Snapped Axle?

Snapped Axle?