Putting a 300tdi into a D2

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davran · #1 Post by **davran** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:53 pm

Turns out the TD5 is almost impossible to retrofit, but the 300tdi has been done. Here's an article from a shop in Quebec:

http://www.britrest.com/Discovery%202%2 ... ersion.htm

davran · #2 Post by **davran** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Reply from Mike at Britannica Restorations:

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Approximately $13,500 - $14,500 as there is a lot to do, but I have no kits at present as I am just about to leave for the UK
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So, doable, but not cheap.

discojonny · #3 Post by **discojonny** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:25 pm

My swap cost me $7400 in total. $5500 for the engine and trans. from england, and the rest at paddocks and the local parts shop.

DaveB · #4 Post by **DaveB** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:51 am

David, I was gonna post that article but I couldn't find the link for it as I didn't bookmark it after reading it a few weeks back. Glad you found it.

(I too am interested in the same project, and not going back to a D1, partly because the D2 is what I have, and partly because there are a number of things I just think the D2 does better, but that's a conversation for another thread...)

I think the choices are 300 tdi or 2.8 tgv at this point, but there have been only a few done as indicated in the article.

I've had a dialog with the owner of M&D in the UK, and he recently sent me this:

======

Hi David,

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

The ‘Engine wiring loom’ is exchange for your displaced V8 loom. The ZF auto transmission matches the new HS2.8L TGV engine well with no alterations, we retain the V-8 throttle position sensor and adjustment of the link to this controls the shift points.

We ship many engines to the US and Canada, I will quote to ship the engine and kit to your address. We are the only company worldwide that distributes these engines.

Motor & Diesel Engineering have over 25 years experience in Land Rover re-power conversions and offer the best and highest quality conversions in the market including unrivalled technical back up and after sales service. Our kits have been developed for right and left hand drive vehicles. Kits come complete with detailed instructions and installation diagrams.

Please find attached full details of our new HS2.8L TGV turbo inter-cooled re-power conversion for your Discovery 2.

To supply Kit 161 £6495, Kit 161A £6295 (no ACE) both kits include air-con.

We can arrange to ship the engine and kit to Armstrong, I will quote early next week..

If you do not receive 7 attachments to this e-mail please let me know.

If you need any more information please contact me. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

David Jackson.
Managing Director.

Motor & Diesel Engineering (Anglia) Ltd.,
Rowan Farm,
Priory Road,
Ruskington,
Sleaford,
Lincs.
NG34 9DJ
United Kingdom.

Tel. 44 (0) 1526 830 185
Fax. 44 (0) 1526 830 217
E-mail :- [email protected]
Personal e-mail :- [email protected]

======

My followup:

Thanks David, for the info.

I'm confident that you folks can do the job for us. My friend Bernie Buttner was very satisfied with the result on his 110. A couple more questions for you...

Does your kit deal with the lights on the dash? Is there enough trickery in there to keep the ECU happy and the check engine light out? The reason I ask this isn't just because I don't like seeing lights on, but that the emissions tests we have to put vehicles through—though elementary compared to your MOT—includes a check of the dash to ensure all warning lights are out. They don't care if its powered by diesel or petrol, but they do care about the warning lights and the tailpipe emissions.

thanks, Dave

========

He answered with this, and 5 documents, which I'll try and post shortly:

Hi Dave,

I run a Discovery II (ex V-8 ) with the 2.8 myself and all dash lights go out including the engine check light.

==========

The price of their kit is around £6,500 / $10,000 plus shipping and includes everything for the install of an International 2.8tgv (including the engine itself). Having seen Bernie's install among others I'm very impressed with this engine.

The downside seems to be we're all named David!!!!

But chatting with Chris W at last Thursday night's meeting, he would like to do the same. Maybe we could get a volume discount and the 3 of us co-op to get them all done over a few weekends...

In conclusion, I would say that we are finally at the point where there are several decent ways of doing an diesel transplant for D2.

Dave

DaveB · #5 Post by **DaveB** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:20 am

davran · #6 Post by **davran** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 am

Excellent info Dave, thanks.

What about the 2.8 going out of production? Will there be parts? Does he do a kit with a 300tdi? If there's any question of parts availbility for the 2.8 I'd rather have the regular LR engine.

These are the Daves I know I know, these are the Daves I know...

PaulC · #7 Post by **PaulC** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:35 am

Good stuff guys very interesting......I wonder if this kind of verified or actual info and experience couldn't find a permanent home here on the site....in Tech Articals....diesel convertions, or somethin like that?

DaveB · #8 Post by **DaveB** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:34 pm

david.randall wrote:Excellent info Dave, thanks.

What about the 2.8 going out of production? Will there be parts? Does he do a kit with a 300tdi? If there's any question of parts availbility for the 2.8 I'd rather have the regular LR engine.

These are the Daves I know I know, these are the Daves I know...

Yes, I understand they are or soon will be out of production. However the 300 tdi is long (like 12 years) out of production and there are still parts available for it, as well as rebuilds, both kit and complete available. The 2.8 M&D sell is brand new, not a rebuild. Most of the 300 tdi's we see over here are used, unknown, good used or knackered, but anyway there is a gamble as most of us over here don't actually see the engine running in the donor truck before we receive it. I would rather gamble on a brand new engine in a crate than on a used engine -- unless it was cheap enough that it was worth rebuilding, or I knew the history from a provider I can trust.

Good stuff guys very interesting......I wonder if this kind of verified or actual info and experience couldn't find a permanent home here on the site....in Tech Articals....diesel convertions, or somethin like that?

One day, Paul... Until then, this is the most read portion of the site and searchable so it makes sense to post it here for now.

cheers, Dave

davran · #9 Post by **davran** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:18 pm

Good point about the 2.8 just now going out of production.

What kind of time frame are you thinking to try to get a "volume" discount? I'm honestly hoping my 4.0 lasts for one to two more years so I can save for the diesel conversion.

P.S. My grade nine homeroom had seven Daves. The teacher lined us up in a row and named us one through seven. I was number two :)

DaveB · #10 Post by **DaveB** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:41 pm

I was thinking spring 2012 and I think Chris was toying with the same. Get a bit more life out of the v8 and replace hopefully before it dies...

davran · #11 Post by **davran** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:04 pm

A year and a bit might be do-able.

What about overall gearing for the automatic D2s? I don't see this in the Q&A section.

DaveB · #12 Post by **DaveB** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:34 am

I'm not in a particular rush as I have to save up too. However I've got over 330,000 km on my engine (with 2 sets of head gaskets and one waterpump so far, but no valve grind or bottom end work) so mine isn't gonna last forever.

As far as transmission goes, I'm told (and have seen in the Rovacom software options) that the same automatic is suitable for either the v8 or the diesel, with a software selection change. It changes the downshift points as well as the max RPM before shifting. The 2.8 is factory governed to 4000 RPM in any case...

I converted my Range Rover to a manual when I put in a 200tdi, and I have no problem with manual for these trucks. My preference with the D2 would be to retain the automatic as part of the existing creature comfort package.

red90 · #13 Post by **red90** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:51 am

Dave wrote:I was thinking spring 2012 and I think Chris was toying with the same. Get a bit more life out of the v8 and replace hopefully before it dies...

The story from the Yahoo group on the engine was that production stopped around June last year. They have changed engines in the Ford Rangers to meet newer emissions requirements. They said parts would be produced for at least 9 years.

If you are planning a "long term" group buy like this, you might want to ask them about the availability in the future of the engines themselves.

rezdiver · #14 Post by **rezdiver** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:46 pm

can some one explain the benifits of installing a 15-18 thousand dollar engine conversion on a 10 year old vehicle.

i do not want to start a debate here, just wondering what the expectations are and what the overall gains will be.

PaulC · #15 Post by **PaulC** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:08 pm

Reza, I ask myself the same question, the idea is great, but economices will never add up. However we are all in this for fun anyway so.....

DaveB · #16 Post by **DaveB** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:19 pm

Well, if I were to pay the labour to someone, it just wouldn't make sense, but I expect to spend no more than $12,000. My Range Rover 200 tdi experience added up to a total expenditure of $4000 including the engine and transmission.

Currently I drive 50,000 KM annually between my Land Rover Discovery and my Nissan X-Trail, and about 80% of that is on the X-Trail. However the X-Trail is not great on winter roads, and it just isn't a Land Rover. I'd like to migrate as many of the miles I do back to the Discovery and expect to save 40-50% on fuel over the current 14-15 MPG the Land Rover gets right now. I would then plan on selling the X-Trail. Currently the X-Trail gets about 26 MPG, not bad, but I think I could do even better with a Land Rover Diesel.

Last year's fuel expenditure estimate:

X-Trail 40,000 KM, 4330 litres @ 1.15 average = roughly $5000

Land Rover 10,000 KM, 1875 litres @ 1.25 average = roughly $2350

Total Fuel: roughly $7350

Anticipated fuel costs after diesel conversion:

Land Rover 50,000 KM, 5000 litres @ 1.15 average = roughly 5750

Annual anticipated savings: $1600 fuel, $1300 insurance (X-Trail sale)
$5000 payments (X-Trail sale) total annual savings: $7900

ROI: under 2 years

We may be looking at a newer D2 as a candidate for conversion, OR more likely, convert this D2 and when the body/chassis dies, move the drivetrain over to a 2004 model.

Just my thoughts, and I won't take offence if someone sees an error to my logic -- so long as you're nice about it! :o

Dave

davran · #17 Post by **davran** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:47 pm

I understand that it's silly to put that much into an old D2, but they're my favourite vehilce to drive. My reasons are that the gas-guzzling 4.0 will need $4,000 head gaskets in a year or two, and I'm not putting that much into using more gas (again). I'd rather that money go towards a diesel that will get double the mileage, and will let me use biodiesel (I'm a member of the Cowichan biodiesel co-op, and run 20% bio in the winter and 80% in the summer in my VW tdi).

So, I'll have $20 - $22,000 -- including purchase price -- into a twelve year old Land Rover that has traction control and ABS, which I want in the winter. A used Jeep Liberty CRD will cost $16 - 20,000 and doesn't have seven seats.

And, I just want to...

red90 · #18 Post by **red90** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:55 pm

Firstly, I'm not sure how a $10000 engine conversion kit plus shipping becomes $15 to $18000. There is no need to exaggerate.

The same reason you take an old ex army Iltis and custom build an old VW diesel into it. The reasons are not financial.

Let's say you want a diesel, money aside. What are the options. A used engine out of "something" and whatever bits needed to make it fit. I don't care what engine you plan to put in. You are out $5000 in parts after all is said and done for the total conversion. People will say they can do it cheaper, but I'd love to see it with a proper accounting of money spent. Some conversions are easy and some are harder, so if you account for labour, that is above that. After this $5g is spent and the work put in, you have a used engine. You could, of course rebuild it. There is another couple thousand in parts and machining. Less if you can do your own machining. The ancillaries are all still used in this case.

This more expensive option gets you 100% brand new parts with everything bolt on and go. No customization, no figuring out parts or engineering anything. Buy, install and drive. And you have more power and torque than any of the "easier" conversions.

rezdiver · #19 Post by **rezdiver** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Red, the exagerration comes from always unforseen expenses such as tranny modifications not calculated in costs yet, ok so i am a bit off and exagerrated :lol: and i did state i dont want this to be a debate. there was a few mentions of over $12k mark so i added for the extra costs that are always surprising and unexpected.
Honestly i have no idea what the costs would be as i am relying on everything that has been said so far in the posts. I am actually very surprised at the costs related to this conversion.

for me to take an old army iltis and convert it to diesel so far has cost me 950 dollars in total (and i still have the parts car to sell to get a bit of money back, and once i sell the parts i stripped out that are hard to get from the old motor i will be down to nearly a couple of hundred dollars or less for a diesel conversion). the conversion is near complete, just have to add oil, connect a couple of wires and am nearly ready to start her up. so there is no comparison to my conversion unless you want to put in a VW diesel in your rover. i believe a new crate diesel vw motor costs around 3500 or 4000 :wink:

red90 · #20 Post by **red90** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:07 am

The M&D kits are complete as I understand it. I know one person here that has done it and they said it was 100% complete. No extras were needed. So the cost is it.

When you convert an old motor, there are lots of little extras and it depends a lot on how "good" of a job one wants to do.

Of course, when I say $5000, I'm talking about an engine conversion on a Disco 2, not a VW. I was not including selling of the old engine. I'm not sure what a 4.6 Disco 2 motor fetches. If you want a cheap hobby, get a Chevy pickup.

Yah, $3500 to $4000 for a VW long engine (not dressed). The engine being discussed here was around $5000 USD fully dressed from the factory in Brazil. Then it needs to be shipped to the UK and conversion parts added. if you look at the list above the cheapest kit is 5395 pounds (for a Defender 300TDI), so $8600. Around $3600 for the conversion parts, shipping to the UK and profit. You can see the list of parts above and decide for yourself if it is worth it. So for $5500 you could have gotten a new engine delivered when they were in production and then do the conversion yourself. You might end up cheaper, who knows. Would you do as proper a job, who knows. This route gets you a fully engineered, designed and tested bolt in conversion and that costs a bit of money.

red90 · #21 Post by **red90** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:41 am

I think this: http://hpamotorsports.com/TDI-YJ-AX5.htm is the closest apples to apples comparison for pricing. A new VW PD TDI conversion into a Jeep JK. Around $10000 without labour. Probably fairly comparable to putting an HS2.8 into a 300TDI Defender.

davran · #22 Post by **davran** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:45 am

With assumptions $150/barrel oil prices this year a diesel conversion pays for itself even sooner. And I just want a diesel...

rezdiver · #23 Post by **rezdiver** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:07 am

thanks for the clarifications and explanations, those prices are much more palatable if no other costs are associated.

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC

Putting a 300tdi into a D2

Putting a 300tdi into a D2