Rapid S2 Disassembly planning

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The_Anachronist · #1 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 am

In about a month, I am making a 3000 km round trip to go get my 109 SW, along with most of another parts donor 109. I am trying to determine what tools and equipment I need to bring for the disassembly and salvage operations on the donor vehicle. It's going to be outdoors, cold, not many daylight hours and has to be fast without damaging parts or people. I don't have, nor do I know how to use, an acetylene torch or plasma cutter...

:?:
Other than the standard SAE sockets, breaker bar, various screwdrivers, pliers and sidecutters, any suggestions for unusual or useful gear to bring?

How about the order of operations - what comes off first?
Any "stay organized" tips?
Any "OMG those are super-rare parts for god's sake make sure you keep XXXXX!" warnings?

I will of course keep you updated... should be quite the adventure, over the Rockies twice with a large trailer, in October...

TOLON · #2 Post by **TOLON** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:34 pm

Bring some rechargeable power tools!
A drill, angle grinder and cut off wheels..hammer, punch and maybe sockets for stripped nuts.You don't want to leave parts behind!

The_Anachronist · #3 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:19 pm

Drill I had thought of, but cut-off wheels, hammer and punches I had not... thank you sir!

Any others?

exmod110 · #4 Post by **exmod110** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:27 pm

Generator or big inverter and some flood lights, can also be used to charge batteries for those cordless tools or power corded tools.
Cordless 1/2" impact that will break seized bolts instead of pissing around with them. Hack saw or sawzall.
take sae and metric wrenches and sockets, never know who has used what on it.
See if you can find any other enthusiasts close by that might lend a helping hand..
Some sort of lifting aid for heavier parts you want to keep.

TOLON · #5 Post by **TOLON** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:15 pm

I would bring wire cutters and a box cutter as well.
Don't let wires, sealants and hoses slow you down!
If you can't take the whole donor, take every light, switch, gauge and electrical gizmo.
Salvage as much as you can. There's always those couple parts you left behind you end up kicking yourself over.
If you stop in Revelstoke for coffee break let me know!

The_Anachronist · #6 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:32 pm

Very good advice, sounds like the voice of experience! Will do - and a stop in Revelstoke could easily happen!

PM your contact info, see what we can arrange!

Rambler · #7 Post by **Rambler** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

I've always found those sockets that you use when a fastener to be rounded off invaluable (before going to the angle grinder). They work wonders and can be had inexpensively at Canadian Tire or princessauto. That and some good penetrating spray. A trolley jack or large bottle jack might prove handy with some axle stands.

Rob · #8 Post by **Rob** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:12 pm

Ditto on the nut extractors - I have a set from Crappy Tire and they work wonders on rounded buts and bolts.... as far as fasteners go, those are probably going to be the biggest headache if they are rusted, likely you won't re-use them so don't waste a lot of effort on them, a battery operated sawzall or angle grinder will make short work of them and speed-up the dis-assembly. I recommend cat litter (oil is bound to spill) and rags to clean-up the work site as well as garbage bags and tape for wrapping-up parts that might leak oil (plus a marker to label everything). I am in the middle of taking apart a car for restoration and I find empty plastic kitty litter buckets with lids are handy for smaller parts and are easy to seal. I label them with a marker so I know what is in them. For what it is worth, borrow a set of whitworth tools if you can as I find working on my series 2 that it reduces the chances of slipping and rounding a nut that SAE doesn't quite fit. Also, I've been using a 50:50 mix of ATF and Acetone as a penetrating oil that I mix in a squirt can, it has been amazing as I remove rusty bolts from a 30 year old car that was sitting in the bush for ten years, far better, IMHO, over the likes of WD40

Last two suggestions, first aid kit (lots of bandaids) and beer (self-explanatory).

Good luck!

Rob

The_Anachronist · #9 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:16 pm

This is a gold mine of info. Thanks all!

The_Anachronist · #10 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:29 am

By the way, re: penetrating oil: I learned a great deal about this from the aircraft mechanics at a previous employer. WD-40 is "Water Dispersant", hence the WD. Not that great as a penetrating oil, but really good at getting water out of a distributor cap or electrical connector or for spraying on tools to keep them from rusting, for example.

From there it gets quite opinionated: Some like PB Blaster, not many like Liquid Wrench, and a small but quietly firm minority like AeroKroil. I learned about AeroKroil from the mechanics who worked on the vintage aircraft that we operated as aerial firefighting aircraft ("water bombers"). It is almost certainly not good for you (gloves, mask, ventilation) but that stuff is straight up amazing. WD-40 is about as effective as olive oil in comparison.

My two cents, as a small token of repayment for all the good advice. Your mileage, as always, may vary!

LR01011000 · #11 Post by **LR01011000** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:02 pm

No one has said it so I will throw this into the mix - having retrieved a donor SWB which was already taken apart (mostly), it took 2 trips with my F150 + 18 foot flatdeck trailer, and they were both pretty much full on both trips. Body parts travel much better when the vehicle is together rather than trying to support them to prevent damage on the highway. If you're using an open trailer (flatdeck), wind at highway speeds will be a factor for the separated body parts so large, heavy tarps with tiedown rope will be extremely helpful to keep it all together. I remember reading somewhere that a disassembled vehicles take roughly 4 time the space of a complete one, and having taken apart my SWB now completely off the frame, I can say that is true and then some!

So....my take on it now would be to bring the donor vehicle back intact, even if it takes a second trip, or if you can bring a vehicle which will take both, or as someone else suggested bring a friend with perhaps a second vehicle/trailer to take the donor back intact as well - then you're not forced into the rushed disassembly, disposal of things you don't want, decisions on what to leave that you may regret later, etc. Also, usually even if the donor is in poor shape, the whole vehicle can be made to roll on and off a trailer much more easily than wrestling the separable but still heavy and now awkward parts and securing them.

Another consideration is weight - a LWB complete weighs (I think) about 3500 lbs without any extra stuff like winches etc., so 2 vehicles (or one plus the most important and heavy bits from a second) will be 7000-ish lbs - a substantial load, that needs reasonable care on the packing and weight distribution for a 1500 Km (guessing from your post that is rough one way distance?) through the mountains.

One tool that I have found very useful in my disassembly of my old rusty beast, is a Dremel or equivalent, with cutting disks - gets in those tight awkward spots if/when you need to cut away bolt heads etc. Of course some associated safety gear - eye protection, gloves, coveralls are good, boots or work footwear which will allow you to walk away from heavy stuff dropped on your toes....lots of tiedown straps etc.

You may also need to either pack away with you or dispose of (safely) various fluids....coolant, lubricants, brake fluid....

I would second heavily the suggestion that you bring as many helpers as you can muster (unless you are going to bring both vehicles back intact), preferably at least a couple with some Land Rover knowledge and who care as much as you do (or almost) about not wrecking stuff during disassembly and packing.....

The_Anachronist · #12 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:49 am

Interesting. I had not in fact considered the extra space of a disassembled vehicle, but I will now. I am using an enclosed race trailer, so other than properly securing things, I am not worried about tarps etc. I am aware of the weight issue, and the trailer will be sized correctly. The tow vehicle is a big diesel GM pickup, I have no concern over tow capacity or power, and braking will be judiciously considered for sure!

There will be three of us, plus the current owner. All three have experience with this sort of thing, and all three are smart, sensible engineer-type hooligans who can (and will) strike the correct balance between speed, safety and fun.

While I do have a moderate "pucker-factor" about hauling that trailer through the Rockies, the senior hooligan (owner of the truck, and my wife's dad!) has a lot of experience, and the two junior ones are careful listeners and not about to do anything stupid.

Once this gets under way, I will start a project thread...

I can't thank you guys enough for the advice so far. Keep it coming, your experience is greatly valued!

LR01011000 · #13 Post by **LR01011000** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:53 am

It sounds like you have most things covered!
When I was retrieving my parts machine, I had looked at renting an enclosed trailer. It would have been better I think for the body parts, but I ended up being able to borrow the flatdeck (free is good) and that actually turned out to be a bit of a blessing, because the owner who was helping load had a rear tractor-mounted forklift and was able to load the engine/tranny unit which was on a pallet by driving the tractor up on the trailer with it. Would have had to split the engine and tranny to load them otherwise, and even then the engine would have been a bear. At home I have a shop crane to work with....and I use a couple of flat dollies to roll some of the heavy bits around, which might be useful for your loading....

S3ute · #14 Post by **S3ute** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:16 pm

Hello from Oz.

Being so far away probably discounts my opinion and experience on this but here's my nickel's worth.

If you go down the retrieve it intact route which has a lot of advantages, and it rolls OK, it would probably be a lot easier to get it shipped on a specialist car carrier.

Back when I bought my present truck it was located in a small rural town about 700kms from where I live. I looked into various self retrieve options including trailers etc. One of my contacts rang me one day with the phone number of a guy who organised long distance car transports between Melbourne and Brisbane and told me to ring him. Got it shifted door to door for $400 which was a lot cheaper than hiring or driving anything there and back plus accommodation, meals etc.

The distances are different but generally the biggest cost of trucking is getting the load on and off the truck rather than the actual distance. In a lot of cases there is back loading space and the shipping companies are happy to quote low to fill the truck.

Worth a thought.

Cheers,

Neil

The_Anachronist · #15 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:42 pm

Thanks again all - I believe it is settling out to using a rented box trailer instead of the open one, even though it's going to cost me. Need the space, need the security. I would really be pissed off if some chucklehead stole parts or smashed windows while we were eating or sleeping or whatever.

Since I can't take the engine/trans off the parts donor and the frame is a disaster, disassembly is the plan. It is mostly taken apart already.

Starting to get excited...

The_Anachronist · #16 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:07 am

I just read a brief mention about difficulty and even danger when disassembling the steering relay (the device that mounts through the frame crossmember). Apparently there is a spring under load in there which can suddenly unspring and scramble your eggs...

Advice? Diagrams? Silly me, I was just going to get in there and unbolt stuff - what could possibly go wrong?

LR01011000 · #17 Post by **LR01011000** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:47 am

Yes, bits under great spring tension in there. It is also notoriously difficult on older vehicles to remove from the frame, they rust in real solid....I would have thought it unlikely that you would be taking it apart during the vehicle parts plunder, rather that you would want to remove the whole unit and deal with repair or overhaul later in a shop where you can contain the explosion of bit.
Based on my experience trying to remove (so far without success) one of these from an old frame, at one point using a 20 ton jack as a press and torch heat, I would say if it fights you and you really want to get it, cut the cross member around it and bring it all home - but I don't think they are prohibitively expensive to buy (less than $200 I think) so you may be better off just scrapping that if it doesn't come out easily.
But in reply to the disassembly danger, just removing it from the frame should not create that concern, it is if you start to get into the internals that you need to worry.

S3ute · #18 Post by **S3ute** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:46 pm

Hello from Brisbane.

Yes, the relay is a potential grenade if handled carelessly. But that requires disassembly of the unit itself rather than removing it from the chassis. As a few have already noted getting the relay out of the chassis can be a genuine pig of a job because it was always a tight fit from new and doesn't require a lot of rust over the years to effect a near welded fit.

Replacement relays can be sourced on eBay for around CDN90 (Aus$100-110) but many of these are pattern parts made in India or similar and have poor life expectancy. A better route is probably to get the existing unit overhauled locally - the internal parts don't commonly wear that badly - basically it contains a central shaft, some conical half bushes and a large spring plus some seals. It is the spring that the warnings are about.

Note, however, that the relay itself usually doesn't wear out but is more likely to have suffered from poor maintenance, especially keeping the oil topped up. In many cases just re-oiling the relay will get it back to close to normal. Replacing the seals can also be done in situ unless the nuts have really had the chips.

Cheers,

Neil

The_Anachronist · #19 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:52 am

Ok, thank you all for the advice again. I will cut the thing out of the frame (of course I didn't think of that brilliantly quick and simple solution) and save it for some later purpose, if the relay on the good truck needs replacing, or if someone else needs it.
Cheers.

S3ute · #20 Post by **S3ute** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:23 pm

Hello again from Brisbane.

Not wanting to get too far off track but the topic of removing steering relays is a vexed one across the planet. If you peruse the local Land Rover chat sites here in the antipodes (mainly AULRO) you will encounter numerous threads similar to one above describing the challenge of removing one without destroying the cross member. Basically, it is a close fit coupled to a relatively large surface area of contact that means it doesn't take much moisture or crud ingress to seize them up nice and tight. Heat, jacks, brute force accompanied by a small side of profane commentary are common procedures.

However, from my observation time, patience and a suitable rust penetrator can be your friend. Some successful extractors approach the task a bit like grandma's peonies - walk past the job every few days and give it a good soak of oil - maybe over several weeks and then give it the jack and shock tap and out it pops. Some lucky souls get it to work in much less time. Given that most restorations sit on blocks for months if not years time is usually on your side. Note also that while WD40 has many admirable qualities rust penetration isn't one of them.

Unfortunately, more than a few hapless souls have managed to wreck the crossmember when getting that drastic wasn't really necessary. Note also the earlier comment that often there is little wrong with the relay other than it has lost its oil and possibly the lower seal. Both can be addressed without removing the relay from the chassis.

Cheers,

Neil

The_Anachronist · #21 Post by **The_Anachronist** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:00 pm

Great info, Neil. Thank you.

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC