For those that have been retrofitting 200tdi engines into their rovers over here in North America, what sort of checks have you done to the 200's before installing them? I've got my 200 on an engine stand now and I'm thinking about taking the pan off and checking the connecting rod and main bearings while it is there. I'll also likely change the timing belt. The compression feels good, I could spin it up to test it but I don't have the correct fitting for the glow plugs on the 200. Any comments and/or suggestions on what I should or shouldn't do to the engine before installation?
Thanks.
200tdi retrofit, what to check/service on the engine?
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HeadDamage
- Horn Blower
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DaveB
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Hi Andrew,
I'm doing the same and mine appeared to be in good shape except for seepage at rear main seal. Obviously this is the time to fix. so I pulled the flywheel and discovered it was actually the flange between the windage tray and the rear flywheel housing that was leaking. It appeared that the windage tray had been tightened down to the engine block without checking that it was perfectly aligned with the block at the rear and as a result a leak started. Looking at the manual, it appears this setup was improved on the 300 tdi.
But, while I was in there... I pulled a rod cap and was surprised to discover a sizable nick in #4 rod journal. So the entire bottom end is now apart and the crank has been sent to a machine shop for polishing. They checked it and were able to polish it up without going to undersize journals.
I've also, since its apart anyway, pulled apart the timing cover to replace the belt, and I'm glad I did as I discovered a stripped holding stud on the idler pulley, which the machine shop welded up and retapped.
Finally, I decided if its that far along I should pull the head and clean up the valve train. I'm just doing that now, and will relap the valves and install new oil seals.
I checked the piston bores for roundness and a wear lip at the top and they appear to be excellent, so I'm not pulling the pistons. Finally, I'm going to test the rod and crank journal nip as per the manual, torquing to spec, then removing one nut and measuring the clearance.
So, not really a rebuild, just a freshening up, but while its sitting here on the engine stand, it just seemed to be the right time to do it.
I ordered an overhaul manual from the UK, but in the meanwhile, I stumbled across a scan of one online. Its pretty hard to find on any of the sites that usually carry that sort of thing so drop me a line if you want a copy...
cheers, Dave
I'm doing the same and mine appeared to be in good shape except for seepage at rear main seal. Obviously this is the time to fix. so I pulled the flywheel and discovered it was actually the flange between the windage tray and the rear flywheel housing that was leaking. It appeared that the windage tray had been tightened down to the engine block without checking that it was perfectly aligned with the block at the rear and as a result a leak started. Looking at the manual, it appears this setup was improved on the 300 tdi.
But, while I was in there... I pulled a rod cap and was surprised to discover a sizable nick in #4 rod journal. So the entire bottom end is now apart and the crank has been sent to a machine shop for polishing. They checked it and were able to polish it up without going to undersize journals.
I've also, since its apart anyway, pulled apart the timing cover to replace the belt, and I'm glad I did as I discovered a stripped holding stud on the idler pulley, which the machine shop welded up and retapped.
Finally, I decided if its that far along I should pull the head and clean up the valve train. I'm just doing that now, and will relap the valves and install new oil seals.
I checked the piston bores for roundness and a wear lip at the top and they appear to be excellent, so I'm not pulling the pistons. Finally, I'm going to test the rod and crank journal nip as per the manual, torquing to spec, then removing one nut and measuring the clearance.
So, not really a rebuild, just a freshening up, but while its sitting here on the engine stand, it just seemed to be the right time to do it.
I ordered an overhaul manual from the UK, but in the meanwhile, I stumbled across a scan of one online. Its pretty hard to find on any of the sites that usually carry that sort of thing so drop me a line if you want a copy...
cheers, Dave
Last edited by DaveB on Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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red90
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JD
Clutch Fork
You should also replace the clutch fork and bearing with new before it breaks early. I can suggest the bomb proof replacement seen at
http://www.signaltelecom.ca/Defender%20 ... 0Fork.html
Have just fitted one in my truck and it went in perfectly. Now I will never have to take out the engine or trans due to a bogus stamped part... just failed clutch.
JD
http://www.signaltelecom.ca/Defender%20 ... 0Fork.html
Have just fitted one in my truck and it went in perfectly. Now I will never have to take out the engine or trans due to a bogus stamped part... just failed clutch.
JD
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DaveB
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Red90, I looked for a link to that manual on that sites main manuals page, but I must have overlooked that one. Thanks for the link.
Cool clutch fork, JD, although it looks more like a clutch "serving ladle". I hadn't heard of the fork being a weak point on these? Is it prone to breaking?
And since we're having a 200 tdi discussion, Andrew I hope you don't mind me asking another related question... When I pulled the vacuum pump out of its spot the gear drive came out with it. I didn't think anything of it at the time as in my experience neither the oil pump or the vacuum pump need to be "timed" like it would for the dizzy on a petrol model. However, the overhaul manual states, "During normal operation of the engine the camshaft and skew gear teeth develop a mated wear pattern. It is therefore important that if the skew gear is to be re-used it should be fitted so that the teeth on the gear and camshaft engage in the original running position." and then it goes on to take up a full page describing how to establish that position.
Hmm, my skew gear came out with the vacuum pump, I didn't even notice it at the time, and there's no way the camshaft is in the same position anymore. What do you think? How noisy do you think this will be when reassembled? Should I be purchasing a new skew gear?
thanks, Dave
Cool clutch fork, JD, although it looks more like a clutch "serving ladle". I hadn't heard of the fork being a weak point on these? Is it prone to breaking?
And since we're having a 200 tdi discussion, Andrew I hope you don't mind me asking another related question... When I pulled the vacuum pump out of its spot the gear drive came out with it. I didn't think anything of it at the time as in my experience neither the oil pump or the vacuum pump need to be "timed" like it would for the dizzy on a petrol model. However, the overhaul manual states, "During normal operation of the engine the camshaft and skew gear teeth develop a mated wear pattern. It is therefore important that if the skew gear is to be re-used it should be fitted so that the teeth on the gear and camshaft engage in the original running position." and then it goes on to take up a full page describing how to establish that position.
Hmm, my skew gear came out with the vacuum pump, I didn't even notice it at the time, and there's no way the camshaft is in the same position anymore. What do you think? How noisy do you think this will be when reassembled? Should I be purchasing a new skew gear?
thanks, Dave
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HeadDamage
- Horn Blower
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I've taken a lot of 2.5na diesels apart and the skew gear never did that, I assume it is the same arrangement in the 200tdi. If they don't cost too much I would consider buying a new one if it is important because you will never figure out the original position. It's a though call, I never would have thought of it due to the lack of a timing issue.
Where was the screw that holds the skew gear in place?
Where was the screw that holds the skew gear in place?
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DaveB
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the grub screw was in place, but in this model it holds the skew gear bushing in place, not the skew gear itself. the only concern I can see from the manual's point of view is noise in the event that the gears aren't meshing the same as they were. My inclination, since the gear looks pretty good is to reassemble as is and remove it in situ later if it's noisy, as its fairly accessible.
Dave
Dave
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JD
Forked
Dave,
Failing clutch forks in Defenders with LT77 and R380 transmissions is a well known issue. Problem is that the fork is stamped out and the fulcrum bubble is the thinnest part of the stamping. So they all break and the pivot ball pops right through causing clutch failure. Sooner or later. Our bomb proof fork isn't cheap but it is machined out of high grade steel and is certainly cheaper than removing half your drive train for a failed 40.00 part.
Cheers
JD
Failing clutch forks in Defenders with LT77 and R380 transmissions is a well known issue. Problem is that the fork is stamped out and the fulcrum bubble is the thinnest part of the stamping. So they all break and the pivot ball pops right through causing clutch failure. Sooner or later. Our bomb proof fork isn't cheap but it is machined out of high grade steel and is certainly cheaper than removing half your drive train for a failed 40.00 part.
Cheers
JD
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HeadDamage
- Horn Blower
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- Location: Calgary
Do you have to use new main bolts, con rod bolts, and con rod nuts when you replace the bearing shells?
Last edited by HeadDamage on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JD
Krof
John,
Sorry. That is my company web site. The fork is a first run of 4 I've just put one in my truck and two are spoken for at this time. One more with bearing is available. Price isn't for the faint of heart, but compared to pulling your engine it is cheap. I don't make much on each one just a little for my time. Trying different methods of manufacture to try to get the price down, but don't want to scrifice quality to do it. As Tony can attest this can be a long process if you have another job.
The one in my truck feels and seems to work absolutely dead perfect. If you look closely you can see we even got the camber or bend over the length. It isn't too heavy (we removed a bunch of metal... can get the price down if a lot of heavy metal left in... didn't do that as I wasn't sure if over really bumpy trails weight would become an issue....) and seems to ballance just right.
.. not on subject.. but do you have any idea what the pipe ID is on some of these Tdi snorkels? I've got an intake under the air cleaner of 3 3/8".
JD
Sorry. That is my company web site. The fork is a first run of 4 I've just put one in my truck and two are spoken for at this time. One more with bearing is available. Price isn't for the faint of heart, but compared to pulling your engine it is cheap. I don't make much on each one just a little for my time. Trying different methods of manufacture to try to get the price down, but don't want to scrifice quality to do it. As Tony can attest this can be a long process if you have another job.
The one in my truck feels and seems to work absolutely dead perfect. If you look closely you can see we even got the camber or bend over the length. It isn't too heavy (we removed a bunch of metal... can get the price down if a lot of heavy metal left in... didn't do that as I wasn't sure if over really bumpy trails weight would become an issue....) and seems to ballance just right.
.. not on subject.. but do you have any idea what the pipe ID is on some of these Tdi snorkels? I've got an intake under the air cleaner of 3 3/8".
JD
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Bill E.
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red90
- Defender of the World
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Re: Krof
The stock 200TDI intake hose is 2.5" and I think most snorkels are that size.JD wrote: .. not on subject.. but do you have any idea what the pipe ID is on some of these Tdi snorkels? I've got an intake under the air cleaner of 3 3/8".
JD
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rovernutzz
new here.... but thought i would put in my piece..... :D
i have always just welded a bit of plate behind the clutch fork bubble before fitting it to strengthen the stock one.... never had one go on me....
as for servicing the 200tdi...... leave the rear main seal alone unless its leaking already, timing belt and tensioners for sure, obviously filters....fuel and oil and air, you shouldnt need glow plugs at this time of year so they can be replaced nearer winter and wait to get it running before considering injectors. is worth taking the rocker and sump off to check all is as it should be...... how many miles are on the unit you got ? and what is it going into ?
i have always just welded a bit of plate behind the clutch fork bubble before fitting it to strengthen the stock one.... never had one go on me....
as for servicing the 200tdi...... leave the rear main seal alone unless its leaking already, timing belt and tensioners for sure, obviously filters....fuel and oil and air, you shouldnt need glow plugs at this time of year so they can be replaced nearer winter and wait to get it running before considering injectors. is worth taking the rocker and sump off to check all is as it should be...... how many miles are on the unit you got ? and what is it going into ?