:) Some of you may have seen my 110 on a flatbed recovery truck in the pictures from the rally in the valley. No biggy seems that the lift pump quit on the 300TDI.
The truck got a lift to Greg's place and has sat there all week. Went up today and changed the lift pump. Diesels are foreign to me however I followed the manual and bleed the fuel system. It started right up and I took it around the country block to be sure all was well. Ran like a top, except it seemed to be running a little rough. Headed back to Victoria and as I was going through Duncan I had a small loose of power that went away as fast as it came. About 25 kms down the road I stopped to air up the tires, and on restart the motor did not start on the first click as it normally does. However it restarts and I'm on my way again. Coming into Vic I slow down coming up to a light and the motor quits. I've just driven over the Malahat with no problems whatsoever. It does start up, however with my foot to the floor it only idles and eventually the revs start to build, once the revs are up they stay up. Once I take my foot off the throttle the motor quits or idles very erratic like. Any ideas??? I'm thinking that 1) there may still be air in the system 2) there is air entering the system somewhere in the fuel system itself, or 3) the high pressure fuel pump is not working correctly. I did change the fuel filter, and there was a bit of water in the old filter.
Cheers
Derek
Land Rover 110, Mr Piat, 300TDI :roll:
The Diesel Files
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moose
- Newbie
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:22 pm
The symptoms you describe sound just like a faulty lift pump. Did you go with a new or used replacement? I just put a 300Tdi into my 110 last month. One the initial start up, my truck ran just as you say yours is running. Luckily, I had a new pump on hand and once it was installed, the engine ran great. Maybe you got a duff pump. Stranger things have happened.
Another possibility, did you over tighten the nuts on the fuel lines into the pump, maybe crushing the olive's a bit, allowing air to get sucked in? I was told the 300Tdi's are self bleeding and I found that to be the case with mine. Today I emptied and cleaned out the sedimentor. Started the engine up and once the fuel in the lines was used up it ran rough for about 10 seconds then smoothed out again.
Brett
Another possibility, did you over tighten the nuts on the fuel lines into the pump, maybe crushing the olive's a bit, allowing air to get sucked in? I was told the 300Tdi's are self bleeding and I found that to be the case with mine. Today I emptied and cleaned out the sedimentor. Started the engine up and once the fuel in the lines was used up it ran rough for about 10 seconds then smoothed out again.
Brett
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JD
Diesel X Files
Derek,
In no particular order.....
put clear fuel line between filter and high pressure pump to check for air;
crack off high pressure line nuts at each injector one at a time to see if good high pressure fuel is getting to each injector and that they appear to squirt the same amount of fuel at the same amount of pressure (wear eye protection); and
perhaps firstly re-drain fuel filter.
y'got my number I can spare a couple of hours for your truck today if you wish.
JD
In no particular order.....
put clear fuel line between filter and high pressure pump to check for air;
crack off high pressure line nuts at each injector one at a time to see if good high pressure fuel is getting to each injector and that they appear to squirt the same amount of fuel at the same amount of pressure (wear eye protection); and
perhaps firstly re-drain fuel filter.
y'got my number I can spare a couple of hours for your truck today if you wish.
JD
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exmod110
- Little Wheel
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Manitoba
The 300 uses a sim injection pump as the cummins and what you are discribing sounds like the injection pump itself. I had a 5.9 dodge diesel with the a non working lift pump that came into the shop a while back. after replacing the lift pump it ran just the way you discribed... rough idle and will barely rev up foot to the floor and stall when let off, checked fuel press out of the lift pump it was ok made sure no air left in the inj pump by cracking the lines at the injectors was ok.. went to the injection shop and confirmed the inj pump and went on to say that this pump dose not take well to being run out of fuel, and its not that uncommon to have a injection pump fail soon after a lift pump failure. Check for air in the supply fuel line after the filter if ok check fuel press into the injection pump not sure what the press should be( does any one know ?) check at idle and wot down the road if you can. if that is all ok then its time to take it to an injection shop. I hope this is not the
case as they are a bit costly. I can't see it being air still in the sys after 25km of fine running unless there is a loose fitting some where..
Don
case as they are a bit costly. I can't see it being air still in the sys after 25km of fine running unless there is a loose fitting some where..
Don
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exmod110
- Little Wheel
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Manitoba
It is the same series... the cummins is a 6 cyl so not exactly the same. Bosch pumps ve series http://www.landroverforums.com/m_497/tm.htm is where i found this out.
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derek n
:) Thanks guys for all your help. I'm really committed today but I had time to inspect the lines from the tank, both return and feed. Because this was a conversion to diesel the person who did the job took a few short cuts. Each line has been cut and spliced with rubber hose and clamps. Around the tank there is a lot of sign of fuel leakage. There is no sedimentor in line and so on.
Don I hope it isn't the injector pump. Time will tell. JD thanks for your offer and once I get things rolling on this I will use your advice with clear line etc. Moose, you may be right about tightening the nuts too tight.
I've also spoken with Aart, he seems to thing that it may be air getting into the feed line. Due to the bodge job on the fuel line I tend to agree with him for now. That's my first step. I'll let you all know how it is going along the way. I have only 12 days before I leave on a long trip up into the Kootenays. Time is of the essence. :roll: Thanks guys :wink:
Cheers for now.
Derek
'84 110 Land Rover, Mr Piat, 300 TDI
Don I hope it isn't the injector pump. Time will tell. JD thanks for your offer and once I get things rolling on this I will use your advice with clear line etc. Moose, you may be right about tightening the nuts too tight.
I've also spoken with Aart, he seems to thing that it may be air getting into the feed line. Due to the bodge job on the fuel line I tend to agree with him for now. That's my first step. I'll let you all know how it is going along the way. I have only 12 days before I leave on a long trip up into the Kootenays. Time is of the essence. :roll: Thanks guys :wink:
Cheers for now.
Derek
'84 110 Land Rover, Mr Piat, 300 TDI
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Rob
- Greasy Fingers
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:37 am
- Location: Ladysmith
Break out the saran wrap!
Hi Derek
So I hope Oliver offerred to tow you out of the bush...
So, a quick, low tech fix if you are concerned about air infiltration on the suction side is to wrap all the fittings. joints and suspect areas with saran wrap. This should tell you quickly if the problem is on the suction side of the system.
Hope this helps, Rob.
So I hope Oliver offerred to tow you out of the bush...
So, a quick, low tech fix if you are concerned about air infiltration on the suction side is to wrap all the fittings. joints and suspect areas with saran wrap. This should tell you quickly if the problem is on the suction side of the system.
Hope this helps, Rob.
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derek n
Diesel Files
8) Didn't need a tow. I limped my way into Duncan. Funny thing the fuel filter was still full when I went to change it. Oliver did wait for me to get to Greg's where he had a used lift pump waiting for me. Unfortunately the fittings were wrong. Good to hear from you Rob, thanks for the tip. :wink:
Cheers
Derek
Cheers
Derek
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derek n
Diesel files
Well JD may have discovered the problem. There is still a lot of air purging off the fuel system. The fuel lines still need to be replaced as there is 4 or 5 cut and splices on the feed and return lines. We also found a small fuel leak on the feed line into the lift pump, which may or may not have contributed to the problem. Hopefully we are getting closer to the final repair :wink:
Cheers
Derek N
Cheers
Derek N
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obalme
- Crank Case
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:11 pm
- Location: Cobble Hill
Hi Derek,
sorry we had to leave you at Glenora, but we had to get Colin's friend home so he could get to a soccer match in Victoria.
As for your fuel problem, I like the saran rap idea, I would first check that someone has not put a filter on the end of the suction in the tank( that was what caused all my grief). Check your fuel filter, is it the right one,take it off and make sure there is no junk in side of it. Also, take your air hose and blow all your fuel lines coming into the injection pump backwards. (We once rented a tractor that ran fine all day but would not start every morning, when the dealership got it back they ended up finding a dragon fly in one of the fuel lines.) I would be very surprised if it was your injection pump, they are fairly durable and usually give out more warning.
Best of luck hunting down your gremlin, Oliver
sorry we had to leave you at Glenora, but we had to get Colin's friend home so he could get to a soccer match in Victoria.
As for your fuel problem, I like the saran rap idea, I would first check that someone has not put a filter on the end of the suction in the tank( that was what caused all my grief). Check your fuel filter, is it the right one,take it off and make sure there is no junk in side of it. Also, take your air hose and blow all your fuel lines coming into the injection pump backwards. (We once rented a tractor that ran fine all day but would not start every morning, when the dealership got it back they ended up finding a dragon fly in one of the fuel lines.) I would be very surprised if it was your injection pump, they are fairly durable and usually give out more warning.
Best of luck hunting down your gremlin, Oliver
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JD
X Men
Oliver,
Derek replaced the filter with the correct cross match, put the brand new lift pump in place, and bled the system. Tonight there was a LOT of foam coming out at the filter head bleed bolt. We found the pressure side nut not sealing well but fixing that didn't make a lot of difference. The fuel line from the tank to lift pump has a LOT of joins and splices with various flavours of hose clamps... and they are in the usual hard to get at places. It won't be a hard job to put new clean lines in place. The off roading we did last weekend could well have jarred something open or pushed a pile of crud from the tank into the lines. Remember Derek was face down into that scree whilst idling.
Don,
Seems the VE pump was used on several other engines besides the Cummins. And there are several different variants. Some links to a little of the info found:
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/en ... jpump.html
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3555/Bosch ... p_head.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/vepump.htm
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... php?t=6427
http://www.tooled-up.com/artwork/ProdPD ... VS1131.pdf
This post intended for those with similar insomnia...
Cheers
JD
Derek replaced the filter with the correct cross match, put the brand new lift pump in place, and bled the system. Tonight there was a LOT of foam coming out at the filter head bleed bolt. We found the pressure side nut not sealing well but fixing that didn't make a lot of difference. The fuel line from the tank to lift pump has a LOT of joins and splices with various flavours of hose clamps... and they are in the usual hard to get at places. It won't be a hard job to put new clean lines in place. The off roading we did last weekend could well have jarred something open or pushed a pile of crud from the tank into the lines. Remember Derek was face down into that scree whilst idling.
Don,
Seems the VE pump was used on several other engines besides the Cummins. And there are several different variants. Some links to a little of the info found:
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/en ... jpump.html
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3555/Bosch ... p_head.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/vepump.htm
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... php?t=6427
http://www.tooled-up.com/artwork/ProdPD ... VS1131.pdf
This post intended for those with similar insomnia...
Cheers
JD