What to get for my first truck?

[Jim Rock]

Alright, I'm a young guy who wants to get a truck. I'm not rich so I need something somewhat reliable mind you I don't mind learning to fix minor problems but I have very limited garage space. My last 2 vehicles were a VW Passat syncro which was a blast to drive but absolutly unreliable money pit and pain in the ass like most VWs are and I just sold my Cadillac STS to travel overseas. When I get home in December I'll need a daily driver to get me from Langley to Abbotsford about 4 or 5 times a week for school and weekly trips snowboarding to Baker, Manning, Whistler etc, making a truck the ideal choice.

I'm pretty much in love with all Rovers and older Landcruisers.

I know Toyotas have a history of bullet-proof reliability but finding an affordable one in decent shape is tough as hell. Problem is, I don't know a whole lot about Rovers other than they're super badass. When it comes to Rovers I really like the look of the classic ones from 60s and 70s as well as Discoveries. It seems like either can be had for my price range but which one will be better for me in the long run? Like I said, I am somewhat mechanically inclined but have limited access to tools and garage space.

Thanks for any help/suggestions anyone can give me.
-Jim

[Bill E.]

Hey Jim,
Your definitely going to get lots of encouragement here, after all misery loves company. Discoveries and old Range Rovers that are in your budget range are probably not going to be very wrench friendly but will be really nice on the Baker, Manning, Whistler run. You will probably be very happy with a series IIa or III for your school run and for the extra bad ass factor. An old Land Rover will likely become your friend and you will develope a serious love/hate relationship. They are the epitome of the bolt together vehicle and are well suited to the back yard mechanic. If you go with a series Land Rover you should understand their limitations when it comes to creature comforts and highway performance. I recommend you look at and drive lots of trucks before you buy. Trucks that are rough cosmetically but solid mechanically are by far better than the other way around.
Good Luck
Bill

[rhino_ed]

here we go.

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/

lots of expensive parts and fixes on the p38, I would know.
The list of stuff i have done is here plus some pics (nothing too exciting):

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934773

I have looked around at lots of rangies and they tend to need the "full meal deal" which is why people usually sell them.
That said if you have $20K lying around:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/c ... 85067.html

expect to spend some money on any truck.

[red90]

Get a Honda Civic and winter tires.

Seriously.

No, older, low cost 4WD, of any brand will be trouble free, ever.

[JD]

Ditto- what Red said.

JD

[Jim Rock]

hmmm, I was hoping for some more encouragement from a group of Rover enthusiasts but doesn't seem like I'm getting much at all...

anyway, it seems like I'll have an easier time finding a Discovery. What should I look for when test driving them? Are they an electrical nightmare like Volkswagens? Is there any part on the truck likely to wear out first?


thanks, hopefully I can find some help!

[Bill E.]

Well Jim, I hope my earlier post was of some encouragement. Notwithstanding the sarcasm from the island and Alberta, Land-Rovers are very unique vehicles and well worth the effort to own. I think JD and Red 90 are trying to impress upon you that all of these trucks require very regular maintenance so it is best to proceed with the understanding that the degree of difficulty in maintenance advances with technological and electrical complexity. Are they an electrical nightmare like Volkswagens you ask? Yes, I would say that they can easily be. You have to remember that the price point you are shopping at for a Disco or RR is approximately 5% to 15% of the original purchase price. These trucks are well out of warranty and in some all cases are well into their second decade of usage. Don't think there won't be issues that regularly result in four digit repair bills. All of the standard caveats apply when shopping used, look for local trucks with service history, low mileage, as much fresh items like tires, shocks, brakes, bushings etc as you can find. Most people will tell you that Land-Rovers will run for a very long time on neglect but when it comes time to catch up on that neglected maintenance it will cost big time. Many used trucks are in the neglected category so if you find one you are interested in, get it inspected, seriously! Not by the corner garage or BCAA but by a Land-Rover Savvy mechanic, check our supporters page for some local shops.

[ANDYD]

Hi Jim,

I would definatly recommend a Range Rover Classic (RRC), if you stay with a pre 1992 model it will be less electronic and typically less troublesome. You get a lot for your money as you can pick up one for $2000 to $6000 which would of originally been a $60000 to $70000 vehicle.
If you are willing to put up with a few niggly quirks and you can do some basic servicing yourself you will have a strong, go almost anywhere vehicle.
Check out the local Craigslist and keep an eye on our "forsale" section,

Good luck and don't be put off... you'll have a lot of fun in a Land rover!

Andy

[red90]

I was not being sarcastic. I was being dead serious.

Purchasing ANY <$5000 4WD and planning to drive it as a daily driver and not wanting to work on it a lot, just will never happen.

$5000 will get you a dead reliable, fun to drive small car with the best winter tires.....

[Rob]

Hi Jim

I have both Rovers and Volkswagens and find them equally as quirky but also equally as much fun. My current driver is a 2001 Disco and I love it. I've had it for a year, bought it as a non-runner, and though I did need a pro mechanic with some specialized software to fully diagnose and repair the engine no-start issue ($800 including all the parts) there hasn't been much repair needed and nothing that I couldn't handle myself in a regular 2 car garage, usual shade-tree mechanics tools and an ODB2 scanner (which will help with many - but not all - of the diagnosis work). Over all, it is very reliable, sweet on the highway and around town, tows 4500lbs of trailer no problem and now, with better tires, is quite capable off-road (don't let the soccer-mom myths fool you...).

I have had pretty much every variant of civilian "series" rover over the past 30 years and though they are pretty fun to have and great conversation pieces. The series and defender lines are the “cool” rovers and everywhere you go there will be someone who will want to chat with you about your truck and it is pretty much guaranteed that you’ll get a wave from most of the other series or defender drivers that you pass. The RRCs and Discos are less conspicuous and other disco drivers rarely wave to you. Then again, I can't say that the series are any better mechanically, or much easier to repair for that matter, than the earlier RRCs and Discos and frankly I personally find the RRC and Disco combination of coil suspension, V8 and automatic tranny with locking centre diff to be way better off road than any of the stock series trucks I have had and even those with some expensive modifications were still no better than a stock RRC with some nice tires (and there are many off-road upgrades to be had for Discs and RRCs nowadays as well).

I agree fully with Andy - my choice would be a 1987 or 88 RRC as they have the best drive train and simplest EFI system and dollar for dollar are the best deals out there for any type of rover. Parts are still available and if you really get tired of the EFI the 3.5 V8 can be switched over to a carb with a good degree of success (I had one with a Holley – awesome power, miserable gas mileage). I have had three 88 RRCs and they are still my favorite off-road and daily driver and I really like the visibility, tight turning, great flexibility in the suspension (at a roverlanders ramp competition a few years back a stock RRC tromped most of the other rovers there) and the combination of the V8 and the auto tranny with the centre diff-lock are very nice when wheeling.

Personally I have stayed with the D2 as my go-anywhere/do-anything rover as I find it better for towing and a little easier to get parts than the older RRCs and just in better shape because it is newer and seen less use. You might want to consider an early Disco as they are also very similar to RRCs and worth considering. All of the RRC/Disco line can have expensive problems so you will need to do your homework as leaky cylinder head gaskets, worn cams, leaky steering pumps, inner body rust, damaged anti-lock brake controllers and corroded switches can all be aggravating and expensive to fix.

In regards to JD and Red’s comment about Hondas…. You have got to admit that Honda’s reliability makes Rovers look like a pretty sad sack of nuts and bolts - My wife has a 2002 Civic, other than changing the fluids regularly and replacing a set of tires it has never had any problems in 7 years and 110,000 kilometers. It always starts, gets great fuel economy, doesn’t leak and has been a reliable set of wheels to go and get parts for the broken-down rovers over the years… and with a set of tire chains it does pretty good on snow and ice as well! I hate that damn car :wink: but can you imagine if Honda had bought Rover instead of TaTa!

Hope this helps you in your search

Regards, Rob
2001 D2
1984 Rabbit Diesel
PS: Us "Islanders" are not sarcastic, we are just creatively grumpy!

[JD]

Didn't know I was being sarcastic.

While I have engoyed rebuilding my 110 over the last 5 years my wife's Toyota has never once let me down when I used it to go get more parts for the Defender.

Jim, a person really has to enjoy a varying degree of home mechanics to operate any kind of truck that will be driven off road.. no matter how lightly. We were out with a Toyota group last spring and they had many of the same complaints that we Van Isle bunch had.

I rather like the way my 110 is cobbled together from bits of RR Classic, SII's, SIII's and various Defender years. All the bolt holes mate up to fit them together! Really. But Bill, Red 90, myself and many others have spent a lot of time and money rebuilding and adding to our trucks. Any of these can be a money pit. Rob has put it rather fairly except I would add that if you are doing the Vancouver 500 twice a day I suspect fuel ecconomy should be a heavy consideration. Bill's expensive diesel engine does (by his report) over 30mpg, mine does a little less but I've heard the V8's of the DII's and RR's are rather thirsty.

Best of luck.

JD
MOD 110
M152 Dodge Radio Van

[DaveB]

I too have a Honda, use it for work only. It is reliable, drives fine, gets me to where I need to be and has absolutely no personality. I won't mourn it when its gone, I don't smile when I approach it in a parking lot full of similar non-personality vehicles, frankly half the time I have trouble finding it in a parking lot. I'll quickly forget it when it's sold, and the only good thing will be the savings of $500 a month in insurance and payment.

On the other hand, all my Rovers possess personality. (And so did all my VWs, but thats another story and another life.) Sometimes they are endearing, sometimes they are cantankerous bastards, generally they won't let you down, and often they strain their heart out to do the crazy things you've asked them to do. Just like humans, if you ignore them and don't work on the relationship, you're asking for trouble. OK, I think I've carried this comparison far enough, you get the point.

I still would take my Rovers over my Honda any day of the week, and after a week on the highway with the Honda, I'm looking forward to bonding with the Range Rover again this morning.

cheers, Dave

[red90]

You just have the wrong Honda.... Mine is more fun to drive than a new 911 and I'm being serious here..... 20 years old, 2000 pounds and handles better than any vehicle I've ever driven at any price.

The point is that what the original post is asking for cannot be achieved with a low cost 4WD of any brand. He'll just end up stuck on the side of the road and unhappy if he tries to drive to Abbotsford 5 days a week in a $3000 Land Rover. If you have the cash to get one into great condition, it will work, but it is still the wrong vehicle for the job.

[PaulC]

Ok Red
You certainly have contributed a lot of comment and advice to this forum in the past.... but your 20 year old Honda is a more outstanding drive than any other car you have driven......I call total BS! :shock:

Oh and by the way, I am a contract Factory driver for a few Medium and Hi-End Auto makers.

I have driven just about every SUV available for sale in North America and more cars on closed courses than I can remember. ...Oh wait you did say “...any vehicle you had driven at any price” :roll:

I do agree with all, that a Rover is far from the very best choice as a commuter low buck and low maintenance vehicle.

I certainly agree with Dave, that most 2000lbs front wheel drive vehicles are totally disposable once they are done, who cares....a few do but not many.
:P

[nakedbarra]

Well I'm sorry but nothing handles better than my wifes Toyota Corola on those factory slicks, it hugs those road barriers through those tight turns and stops on a dime, if you place it down the block. Sorry but a Civic or Corola are not performance vehicles unless you are 18 years old and remove the muffler, oh and ad spinner hub caps.
I must be in a grumpy mood today

[red90]

... but your 20 year old Honda is a more outstanding drive than any other car you have driven......I call total BS! :shock:

This is my truthful opinion. Come to Calgary and you can drive it. And, yes, I have driven many modern expensive cars. I've driven road course comparison testing, I driven with the Porsche clubs.... BTW, I said "more fun to drive", which is a very specific comment. I mean what I say. I did not say "better performing" or some such other thing. Passive rear steering is magic. I should add that every other Honda I've ever driven is boring as hell. This one they got right and makes you smile every time you drive it.

[PaulC]

Ok I can certainly understand anyone forming an option based on experience, limited or otherwise, but your statement more fun to drive than any other car at any price just doesn't fly :roll:

....thanks for the invite though I do like Calgary. :)

[Doc Tari]

Nice... The man comes to our club's forum for advice on buying a Rover and is told to buy a Civic. I think if he was looking for a Civic, he would not be asking about LR's. I've owned, and still own, several Toyotas but still chose to buy a 110. It's never let me down and I have no regrets. And with the Tdi, the only thing I own that gets better mileage is my motorcycle so I commute with the 110 most days.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but Civic's are more fun than 911's? Very sound advice...

[Bill E.]

Hi Jim,
Sorry for all the blah, blah, blah about how fun 20 year old Honda's are, clearly our friend Red 90 thought you were asking our advise on large kitchen appliances. I'm with Paul C. and also call total BS. On the other hand if you are looking for a nice reliable kitchen appliance I suggest checking out www.whogivesashitabouthondas.com.

[red90]

Nice... The man comes to our club's forum for advice on buying a Rover and is told to buy a Civic.

So then, back on topic, what should Jim get?

- Low cost
- Daily driver on highway #1
- Reliable
- Land Rover

No point in taking my advice as apparently I come on these forums and lie.

[DaveB]

A Discovery 1 (98 & 99 were the best of the model), with a decent service history and a pre-purchase inspection by one of the experts, Don at Rovertech, Alastair at Hesp or Keith Robinson in Langley. All 3 are found in our supporters section.

The drive from Langley to Abbotsford is only about 35 KM, of which only about 25 is on highway 1. This is not a long commute, so the extra cost in fuel compared to a small high-mileage car will take much longer to realize.

For weekend outings and snowboarding the Land Rover is hard to beat.

As far as reliability goes, I've got 328,000 km on my Land Rover, and I personally haven't found it to cost more in service and repairs than any other vehicle I've driven. Again, we're getting into personal experience here, but this is a forum after all.

cheers, Dave

[Jim Rock]

That was another question I had... good mechanics! Thanks for the heads up on that. I think I'm going to check out a Disco in West Van, I'll get one of the shops on the shore to check it out.

[Dave_F]

Just to confuse things even more...there is a really nice Series 3 88 in N.Van (don't know if it's sold yet), with a galvanized frame!!

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/c ... 37481.html

At least you could work on it yourself. Parts are plentiful

If the link isn't working anymore I could probably get you a tel #.

Dave

[rhino_ed]

expect to spend some money on any truck.

[sailor]

Doesn't Barry at Mosquito Creek (yacht metalworks) still have his for sale as well?