Series IIa brake drag

[andrewMcF]

I put new shoes and drums on my 88" all around as the old shoes were so worn that I couldn't advance them anymore but now it seems the shoes will not completely disengage so they drag on the drums, so much I think I may have warped the new drums. With that thought I put the old drums back on and it is better but I can tell on hot days they still drag some... I'll drive home from work which is mostly up hill and when I get home I'll touch the rims and they will be almost to hot to touch, I wouldn't want to keep my hand on the wheel form more then a second or too...

The springs on the front brakes were strong and I replaced the rear brake springs as they were knackered....


Thanks,
Andrew

[Bill E.]

Perhaps a stupid question to ask but i assume you backed off the adjusters as much as possible? Just asking. Are either the shoes or drums aftermarket, are the shoes and springs set up properly with consideration for leading/trailing orientation? It's not uncommon to see these problems with jobber parts. Some of the jobber brake linings are very thick. You should measure the drums (old and new) to confirm they're close to proper tolerance. If your old drums are worn evenly without too much ridging then I suggest you keep using them until the new shoes are worn enough to fit inside the new drums.

[andrewMcF]

Always ask the stupid questions first! lol

Yes the brakes are backed off all the way.

The drums were BP so I'm assuming rubbish, but the problem with them now is they are out of round, from the heat I think, so measuring is moot.

The shoes can only go on one way as far as I know, one with the post and one with out the post, correct? RE: Orientation.

I have gone to the old drums and they rub way less, so I'll probably just wait until things settle in, but I was worried I did something silly... I've done brakes lots before but there is always room to learn(or F' up depending on your point of view.) :lol:

[mepham55]

This is a good site for reference on brakes:

http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/foru ... 606.0.html

Matt

[red90]

Probably bad shoes. Are they a name brand or mystery brand? I've had this from the no-name brand shoes. They were not round and caused all sorts of problems. I would make sure you have a set of name brand shoes and then have the drums turned to make sure they are round.

[Bill E.]

The link Matt has given shows shoe and spring orientation better than I can explain it.

[andrewMcF]

The front set of shoes are OEM and the rear are off brand...

I'm pretty sure the springs are installed correctly but now I'm second guessing, I'll have to pull the drums off this weekend and look again. Those are great pics for sure too!

Is it possible that old or bad brake fluid expands more in the heat? It seems that in the morning the brakes are fine, even after driving to work, but during he mid day heat (30C+) the seem to drag...

[island dormy]

Hi Andrew

I can think of three things that may be causing you problem none of which may be the answer to your problem.

1. The brakes are just adjusted up to tight try loosening each adjuster off a couple of clicks until the shoes bed in a little bit. I had a MGB that I adjusted the rear drum brakes up to tight and they would start dragging as the brakes got warm. One click looser cured it. ( I know you have said the shoes are backed off all the way) so thats probablly not it.

2. You have not also been working on the master cylinder have you? If there is not enough slack in the pedal (1/16th inch before the pedal starts pushing fluid into the system) pressure will build up and not release. The big spring that pulls the actual brake pedal back up also needs to be in place and strong enough for the job.

3. This would be a real wierd cure but on one of our Island Rover trips up to Mount Arrowsmith ski hill a light green 88 had brake problems exactlly like yours. All four brakes dragging. As soon as he took the cap off to check the fluid level we heard a sucking sound and the problem was cured. (The very tiny breather in the cap was plugged with dirt) A small pin through the vent hole was all it took to fix the dragging brake problem.

Your new brake drums might still be okay and not warped, however if you can feel the pedal pulsing (Just like anti lock brakes) as you stop from say 50 mph or more one or more of the drums may be warped.

Good luck

Victor 1962 Dormobile

[andrewMcF]

The brake adjusters are all they way back, it was a tight fit with the drum and new shoes...

I haven't been playing with the master but I think I might now as my brake pedal is very high, was that way when I rebuilt it so this weekend I'll take a peek and set it up properly and see if that makes a diff.

As for option 3... I wonder if it's possible that if a system is bled with thin shoes and then you put thick shoes on(new) that there would be too much fluid in the system to allow the slaves to come back...

Also I'll try the cap thing... who know stranger things have happened.

Thanks for the input!

I would consider putting the disc conversion on this truck from Jeremy at Rocky Mnt. and be done with it but I have really nice tires on my 15" rims... :( lol

Andrew

[island dormy]

Hi Andrew

Did you put a 45 degree chamfer on the end of each shoe (both ends)? Everyone always says to do this to keep the brakes from squeeling and to also stop the shoes from snatching. Maybe this would help if the shoe are really snug? Just wildly guessing here.

Victor 1962 Dormobile ........... Remember Land rover invented anti lock brakes. (Not on purpose)

[e.prevost94]

I defiantly agree with putting a 45 degree chamfer on it. Cuts down on noise as well. If all else fails, I've found that some aftermarket shoes have way way way to much meat on them and start reeking havoc on the braking system. Same goes for the drums. Is it dragging on the front, or the back?

[andrewMcF]

It seems to drag primarily on the front but as the system heats up I think it puts pressure on the back as well... What I find strange is that in the morning cool air the brakes are fine, as in by the time I get to work no drag, but on the way home cook city...

Andrew

[ANDYD]

One other thought, could you have fitted 109 brake shoes by mistake? (Over-sized)?
I believe the 88 brake shoes are a smaller/different size.

[dhkcoatings]

There is a leading and trailing shoe. Cant fit the wrong way round. Check pedal height freeplay as mentioned above

[andrewMcF]

So I think I figured out the issue. (He says sheepishly...) You know when you think you know what your doing because you've done this before a bunch of times but it's been a while since then.... After exhausting all diagnostics I went back to the basics... I looked at the picture in the link that Matt kindly provided... and YUP I'm an idiot, totally hooked the top spring up wrong, I had it hooked to the static post on the brake back plate correctly but I had hooked the other end of the spring to the lead shoe in a hole kindly located near the post (like US brakes sometimes do) instead of the dynamic post on the lead shoe next to the snail screw(brake adjustments, whatever you want to call them)...

So just finished that job and I suspect everything is going to work out fine now.... accept for my ego, that's going to take sometime to fix....

Thanks for the input guys.

Andrew

[e.prevost94]

Glad to hear you figured it out!

[Hectorious]

Having just figured out the solution to my recurring brake problems, I wanted to resurrect this post.

Part of the problem for me in reassembling the brakes after installing new shoes came form the diagram in Green Bible manual, which shows the wrong match between brake backing plate and brake shoes (please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but the diagram really screwed with my head).

I now know that the only way these pads/shoes go on correctly is as follows:

a. brake backing plate on all four wheels must be mounted with the snail-shaped adjusting cam to the FRONT. previous owners may have replaced them and mistakenly switched them left to right.

b. the proper sized brake shoes (10" all four wheels for my 88" 1966 2A) must go on properly, with the front shoe having a post that serves two purposes: it rests against the snail-shaped cam to allow for brake adjustment, and it allows for the attachment of the top brake return spring (usually the red spring).

c. The other end on the top brake spring must be attached to the post on the brake back plate and NOT TO THE OTHER BRAKE PAD.

Previous owners (and I) can and have gotten it wrong, so don't assume the springs go back on the same way they came off, and don't look to the diagram in the manual for help).

Can I have verification from others that I've got this right?

[red90]

That sounds correct for 10" shoes.

[red90]

See attached from Series 2 manual, which looks correct.

[Hectorious]

That drawing is much clearer than the one in the manual, page 4H, which has the brake shoes pictured with the trailing shoe and the leading shoe reversed front to rear. Thanks for this.