1967 Series 2a Clutch

[gmorbey]

Hello... I'm a new owner (see Intro's) with a 1967 Series 2a. When I went to test-drive the vehicle, the clutch was very high, and I didn't feel that it could drive home, so I put it on a trailer. When I went to pick up thevehicle, it did not drive at all and was very difficult to get onto the trailer. These are the symptoms...
1. No pedal free play
2. Clutch pedal is same height as brake pedal
3. Lots of slip when pedal is fully disengaged when in 1st or reverse, but some very limited engagement when in second
4. No ability to go up hill (but goes down hill great!)
5. No problem moving gears selector into various gears
So what do you think? I believe clutch master is okay, but I don't know about the slave. The previous owner said it was working fine when he last drove it in the field (with mud on the undercarriage to prove he was there). I was thinking that sine I drove it a few days prior, it's probably a rear engine seal leak or transmission input shaft leak, but then I started thinking about transfer case, slave cylinder, clutch plate. SO rather than take it all apart to have a look, I thought I'd ask here to get some insight first.
Also... it has a new disc brake conversion, but the vacuum is not hooked up (never completed it). Does anyone know where the right vacuum source is?
Thanks,
Geoff.

[bsa_m21]

If I understand correctly, the clutch is slipping under load. Free play in clutch pedal is adjusted at the master cylinder. Unless it is seriously out of whack, I doubt that is causing your issue. More likely a worn out clutch.

Re disk brakes - without knowing what master and booster you have, it’s difficult to offer advise. The brake vacuum takeoff is on the 2.25L intake manifold, between the carb and the front of the motor.

[gmorbey]

Thanks Martin... I'm thinking clutch disc too, so I guess it's coming apart to have a look - and also confirm what size it is, as I've heard it could be either a 9" or a 9.5". As for the brake master and booster, I have no idea what make or type they are. But I'll take a look at the intake manifold for a vacuum take-off point.
Geoff.

[StuartC]

gmorbey
Good excuse to pull the gearbox and investigate.
LOF Clutches in UK are top notch and an S2A requires a 9.5" clutch disc.
Also a good time to ensure clutch master and slave are in good working order.

[gmorbey]

I decided to just pull the gear box back 20 centimeters and inspect/remove the clutch. The previous owner had said the clutch was fine and the vehicle drove normally just a few days before, so I wondered if the clutch was suffering from a rear main or gear box input shaft oil leak. What I found was a clogged drain, a very rusty (but dry - no oil residue) clutch cover, a completely worn out clutch disc (right down to the rivets), a very rusty flywheel, and a caked on mass of burnt clutch dust inside the bell housing - about 5mm thick. It did not appear wet near the bottom (assuming that's where oil would have gone), but dust had coated everything in there pretty consistently. Brake Cleaner removed most of it with little effort. So I'm thinking that I do not have a rear main seal leak or a transmission input shaft leak. I also verified that the vehicle has the 9.5" clutch. I have a few questions at this point...
1. Should I change the throw out bearing? It does not appear to make any noise. I'm 75% there anyway.
2. If yes, is this behind a small cover in the bell housing, and if this is removed, does that drain gear box hydraulic fluid?
3. The clutch cover appears to have a steel triangular shaped central hub that mates with a similar size disc on the input shaft that seems to rotate freely. This would be metal/metal contact in operation. Should this be lubricated when assembling?
4. Unrelated, there are no reverse lights. Where is the reverse light switch located? I see no electrical connections on the gear box, but there are loose and disconnected wires in the harness close by.
Any input would be appreciated...
Geoff.

[TimberPig]

I decided to just pull the gear box back 20 centimeters and inspect/remove the clutch. The previous owner had said the clutch was fine and the vehicle drove normally just a few days before, so I wondered if the clutch was suffering from a rear main or gear box input shaft oil leak. What I found was a clogged drain, a very rusty (but dry - no oil residue) clutch cover, a completely worn out clutch disc (right down to the rivets), a very rusty flywheel, and a caked on mass of burnt clutch dust inside the bell housing - about 5mm thick. It did not appear wet near the bottom (assuming that's where oil would have gone), but dust had coated everything in there pretty consistently. Brake Cleaner removed most of it with little effort. So I'm thinking that I do not have a rear main seal leak or a transmission input shaft leak. I also verified that the vehicle has the 9.5" clutch. I have a few questions at this point...
1. Should I change the throw out bearing? It does not appear to make any noise. I'm 75% there anyway.

If it’s smooth with no obvious issues, it’s your gamble. They are well lived with oil from the gearbox, so they rarely fail unless they get dry and rusty. As you say though, you’re already right there so if it’s makes you feel better, now is the time to change it to ensure it is good.
2. If yes, is this behind a small cover in the bell housing, and if this is removed, does that drain gear box hydraulic fluid?

Yes, it’s inside the release housing. Some gear oil will escape, but only until it hits the lowest edge of the housing.
3. The clutch cover appears to have a steel triangular shaped central hub that mates with a similar size disc on the input shaft that seems to rotate freely. This would be metal/metal contact in operation. Should this be lubricated when assembling?

No the release mechanism mates with this, then they spin together. Minimal wear and lube will only make it skip before the grab, as well as slinging oil inside the housing.
4. Unrelated, there are no reverse lights. Where is the reverse light switch located? I see no electrical connections on the gear box, but there are loose and disconnected wires in the harness close by.

Reverse lights weren’t fitted on most 2a’s, with them only coming in around 68 due to changing vehicle equipment laws requiring them. It could be added, just as it was installed on the late 2a/3’s that came factory fitted with it. A switch is mounted on the top right side of the gearbox and tripped by the reverse shift rod. Up to you if this is worth your time, most people would just wire some lights onto a toggle switch if they want lights for backing up.

Any input would be appreciated...
Geoff.

See my responses added in above.

[gmorbey]

Thanks for that info. I could see no reference to the mating pieces for the clutch release in the manual... so dry it will stay!
G