next Whipsaw Run!!

[rick.m]

Can someone who will be going on the next WHIPSAW RUN in july get in touch with me, please. as i have some signage for placement along the sensitive areas of the trail. And has Paul or some one contacted the ministry about available tables etc. to be installed at LODESTONE LAKE CAMPSITE? I will be around home {south Surrey} this weekend. then i am off to the Island for a week then on holidays. hope some one can get these signs.!!. home email is [email protected]. or [email protected] is my ppc email. all the best. rick.m

[PaulC]

Hi Rick,

I was making arrangements to pick them up from Wes in Surrey (I’m in New West)…now you have them, how would you like me to get them, can we meet somewhere? (if you don’t want to hang on to them)

I have been in touch to forestry regarding resources (tables etc.) & location of recourses; I’m waiting for a response. I’ll send of a reminder this morning.

[rick.m]

Thanks Paul. Shawn just emailed me about them . and i will try to take them to him tonight or sat. thanks. good luck with getting the stuff for up there. all the best. rick.m

[PaulC]

Ok that sounds great..thanks for getting them.

[DaveB]

Sorry guys, I won't be able to come on the next Whipsaw run, due to work commitments.

Next time...

Dave

[rick.m]

I was able to get the signs over to Shawn Doherty this am {sat} to be taken up to the trail, there will need to be some posts taken i guess to fasten them to. Hope all goes well . rick.m Club Secretary, "roverlanders"
Hope that will help Paul C.

[PaulC]

Thanks again Rick & Shawn,

I was just thinking about how we are going to post/stake the signs. Obviously staking the signs into the ground will work…but with what; wood, or rebar might be nice…anyone have any extra materials/ideas that we could use? A non-evasive way to post signs on trees might also be handy…any ideas/volunteers?

Shawn if your out there… how big are the signs & what do they seem to be made of?

[shawn doherty]

Paul the signs are made of corrigated plastic they are 12" wide and 18" long. they can be installed by zap straps to a tree or rebar and the same or screws to a post. There are 45 signs. I would think round pencil posts would be best with a post pounder. they say" Be Responsible, This is a fragile enviroment, Off-road use threatens the unique variety of plants and wildlife found within these grasslands. Please stay on public roadways!Keep your grasslands Alive!" Also I have a trailer thay could carry a table or 2 up there but it won't be fast.

[DaveB]

I have about 8 8 footers and a hand pounder if someone want to pick them up on the way out. You might want to cut the posts in half and mount the signs low...

After much searching, becuase we use these in our paddock, the only place I can regularly find bean poles (1-2" x 8') is Otter Co-op. I can pick up some more if you think we need them.

Dave

[PaulC]

Thanks for the sign description & volunteering to haul with your trailer. I’ll keep you posted regarding tables. Shawn (or anyone for that matter) what do you think do we need 2 stakes per/sign so they don’t blow over?

Dave I’m not 100% sure what 8 footers & a hand pounder are :lol: , but I bet they are useful and we should pick them up for signing the trail. Beanpoles (wood stakes?) also sound good if we have 45 signs, although I doubt that we would post half that many. So I would say sure Dave if you pick up some Beanpoles as many as the budget(??) reasonable allows.

Does anyone have a line on some (free) very long zapstraps?

[DaveB]

Dave I’m not 100% sure what 8 footers & a hand pounder are :lol:

You will Paul, by the end of this trip. Posts come in sizes of either 6, 7 or 8 feet, normally, and standard widths are 2-3", 3-4", or 4-5" in diameter. They are hard to find, but there is another size, 1-2" diameter, which are light duty, but quite strong, and the good thing about them is they're really easy to pound. The hand pounder is basically an 18" section of heavy pipe, about 6" diameter, with the end welded up and handles welded to the sides.

The proper way to use these is to have two guys holding the handles and keep it balanced. The last time I used it myself without a helper, I nearly did myself in as it kicked back, bounced off my forehead and thunked me on the top of the head as well. Knocked me out and created a rather big pool of red stuff. So the moral of the story is use the pounder with two people!

Dave

[ANDYD]

Hi Guys,

I have a load of 1ft zap-straps I can bring along if needed?
They can be daisy chained together to be longer if required.

These signs sound quite flexible, will they need a backing board?
.. or two posts, one at each side, to stop them bending in the wind?


Andy

[shawn doherty]

They are flexible and would be best installed on plywood. Being a carpenter I can cut out some plywood very quickly and I have loads of scrap ply at my disposal. If we were to flaten the section of post with an axe or chain saw that the sign attachs to it would be stronger and 1 post would do. It would be difficult to pound 2 posts together to a consistent measurement. The ply would be best bolted to the post with gal. carriage bolts. So 45 signs need approx 45 posts, 45 12"x 18" pieces of ply and 90 carriage bolts 5/16" x 3". assuming you want to install them all to posts. In casese where trees are used zap straps and plywood would work fine.

[PaulC]

Ok thanks gents, single post sounds like the way to go & 2 persons on the pounder (helmets) :shock: .

Shawn are u volunteering to procure & cut & mount the signs to plywood? Would you like some help from someone?

Carriage bolts/nuts/washers I would be happy to pick them up…is there a budget for reimbursement?

Zaps from Andy…thank you.

Still need to pick up the hand pounder from Dave…anyone?

[DaveB]

How far off the ground do you want the signs? the posts come in 8 foot lengths, which you are not liekly to get pounded in more than 18" due to rocks and such, which leaves 6.5 feet at the top. Is that too tall, or could we get away with cutting them in half, thus producing 4 footers with about 2.5 feet out of the ground?

Dave

[PaulC]

Good question, how far, could vary from high spots on hills to lower on the meadows...or maybe we should just keep it straight forward & half the poles length.

Yup I think we should half the poles...maybe keep 2 or 3 at full length

[DaveB]

OK, I'll aim to get 30 full length posts, and you can cut them with a chain saw as you see fit. Got a big pencil sharpener?

Dave

[PaulC]

Great thanks Dave, let’s ask Shawn our resident carpenter about the giant pencil sharpener…Shawn idea’s :idea: …chain saw perhaps?

What about the fastners Dave 90 carriage bolts/nuts etc is going to add up to some $$ :?: .

[shawn doherty]

Sorry guys but I have to diagree with cutting the post in half. I would think the signs should be posted at 5'high. But if you want to cut them I can bring a chain saw. Also I will supply the plywood backing. Anyone with a battery powered drill should bring it along. I don't think carriage bolts will be too expensive as you need a very durable assembly to survive the climate.

[PaulC]

Yea Shawn I think you make a good point about leaving the posts at full length. I was strictly thinking of how much “workâ€

[PaulC]

Ok interesting Wes, are you definite about the alum nails? I could talk to forestry make sure that they don’t have any contradiction to that method.

Hey Shawn what would be a good second method (cheaper) than carriage bolts to mount the signs?

[DaveB]

From what I understand, an aluminum nail will not cause the potential dangers that steel or ceramic ones will if a chain saw is eventually used on a tree. But I might have heard wrong on this.

Dave

[PaulC]

All right I just emailed Mr. Ed Abels (Ministry of Forests) & asked if the might be any funds available :roll: to cover some of our sign costs…hardware etc. I also asked about attaching the signs to trees, if it is ok to do so & what method would the ministry approve of.

[PaulC]

Here is the meat of the email I received this afternoon from Edward Abels.

Thanks for the photos and the update. This kind of information is very valuable to me when considering infrastructure needs and the possibility of entering into a maintenance agreement with your club. I intend on heading up to Lodestone sometime in mid August via the Lodestone Road near Coalmont. At that time I will assess the needs there, perhaps repair some infrastructure and work on a maintenance agreement with your club perhaps by the end of September so it is in place for next fiscal year. We will probabvly need to meet once to get documents signed etc.

Regarding the picnic table I am currently out of them but anticipate in getting some by September 15. Regarding trail rehab I do not suggest you do any mechanical work as this could be in contravention of forestry legislation if that was what you were thinking. I will let you know my thoughts oncw i get up to Lodestone.


I do not suggest using trees to post signs. I currently do not have any carriage bolts of that type and will certainly not get any by your time frame. May I suggest you use double headed nails so if I get the bolts for you at a later date the nails can be easily pulled and replaced with the bolts. I

like what you are doing up there regarding signage and site cleanup

[derek n]

:D Why not use large wood screws with suitable washers to attach the signs to the posts. That may be a little cheaper than carriage bolts. If everyone brings their portable drill we should have enough power to drill the screws in over the weekend. I also agree with Shawn about leaving the poles whole and cutting them if required. I used to be a farmer and I know a little about pounding posts. Too easy.
Are we meeting at Whatcom road at 5 pm. I guess that means I'm going as well.
Cheers
Derek
Van Isle Land Rover Network
'82 Airportable
8)